Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.. Driscoll also distanced himself from past crude and misogynistic remarks, calling the perception of what I think about womenentirely my own fault. Do any of you who oppose Driscoll preaching or running a church again, is there a way he could ever get forgiveness from yall to do that sort of ministry again? what is a person supposed to do? jesus gets out of his seat yelling forgive him forgive him forgive him, jesus cheers for forgivers who forgive their enemies. (I always pictured Jesus in that moment comforting stephen with great love and compassion, not screaming at him to make sure and do this thing right) I also dont think he should work or earn profit in any manner making money off Jesus (such as selling Christian books, pod casts, site subscriptions, accepting speaking fees to appear at churches, etc). Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? The man can speak pretty well and seems to fill the pews. It is certainly understandable we would see it differently. The best thing about it is one young woman had incredible courage. Blech!! I recently had coffee with a staunch Mark Driscoll supporter who has chided any criticism of Mark Driscoll and strongly challenged me for every apparent infraction of the last year, yet at the same time vigorously excused or defended every one of Driscolls mistakes. The supporter said some awful things about me and Agathos, particularly its misuse of funds. @ Lydia: I guess Calvinism for these guys means never having to take personal responsibility Thats certainly how Driscoll has handled things. Mega-church Christianity with its rock bands, light shows, huge screens, and glitz reminds me more of Broadway than a church. Far as I can tell Driscoll is arrogant, a lover of money, unholy, not above reproach, etc. http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/article_4d131547-f913-5d43-bfc5-5a292f4c27e1.html, What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. I had been a pastor and fell horribly due to pride, arrogance, self centeredness, fear of man, desire for fame, etc. You would have thought Piper would have caught on at some point. (the homes), just a few helpful links re: hillsong lol, http://www.news.com.au/national/hillsong-church-linked-to-abuse-claims/story-e6frfkp9-1111115815321. Why would anyone seek to admire and celebrate a man who plotted to kill millions of innocent American civilians? http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm As far as people moving into ministry later in life, one would hope they had left that life behind and were new creations in Christ. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/royal-commission-child-sexual-abuse-investigates-hillsong/5795308 His appeal, then and now, has much to do with his looks plus a perception of him being anti-establishment, which he was. In his introductory remarks, he spoke of Marks kindness, humility, and genuine interest in people. Lets see. He made a lucrative living and lived what I would call a lavish lifestyle (higher standard of living than every single person in my church, for example), and he did it all with Jesus. I sincerely hope Mark Driscoll's remarks are about this specific passage and not about himself. Some people believe that God put them there. Houston was saying in his statement he was only just now finding out about some of Mark Driscolls more controversial statements, and that is due to the media. I have read both accounts that Che was short for Chancho and also a play on his habitually calling everyone che which is slang for pal/friend etc. Hillsongsfounder, Brian Houston, released a statement saying he did not want the 30-minute interview with Driscoll to distract from the larger five-day conference. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. it isnt anguish if i dont care and i am just a head of some church deciding that someone cant seperate or divorce or annul because i dont have time to look into it right now and i will get back to them with my judgment when i think its appropriate. Are they involved in a joint venture? It was dingy and old. So, that is why I think it would have been wise for Driscoll to remove himself from the limelight and assume a servant posture. They stirred up the people now the mob is forming. But forgiveness doesnt mean he should ever be in the same position in a church again. I do hope he finds wholeness. thats the same conclusion i came to, i think the Lord is showing us, for ourselves and others that we do need to look at fruit. yeah, that pastors comment is kinda too scary for me to think about lol. Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. mark chose to step down not mark was removed. All the celebrity has to do is play the victim/repented card. @ Gus: That does not mean you want harm to come to them. I started to ask myself, If Christ is present in someones life, and therefore the Spirit, will not God, in his infinite power, begin to produce those things in that person? And I began to wonder if Mark Driscoll even possessed the Spirit of God. But in America, (to quote HUG) its all about the Benjamins, baby. But MD has been a jerk as far as Ive read, not a criminal or anything. So far I define church as more what it isnt rather than what it is. And there were no acrobats, flying drummers, or the need to check out the latest cosmetic procedure on the head worship pastor there. He spends the remainder of the sermon talking about Saul who became Paul and forgiveness. Trump: If you put me back in the White House, 'America will be a free nation once again', The Gospel Coalition takes down 'Sex Won't Save You' article; Rick Warren calls for apology, Wife of pastor killed by reckless driver breaks down in testimony, CPAC: Vivek Ramaswamy warns of 3 secular religions, proposes 'national revival' not separation, From a progressive Christian antagonist to an orthodox Christian advocate, In Haiti, big money for orphanages can endanger children, 7 signs of failed Christian leadership in business, My agonizing question after Nigeria's presidential election, Ukraine war exposes weaknesses in Russia and the West, LA County clears John MacArthurs megachurch in COVID-19 outbreak probe, Calling it persecution by public policy, hundreds of Oregon Christians protest COVID-19 restrictions, 'Churches should suspend services during pandemic.' Even then he will need what was badly missing from Mars Hill, real accountability. saul walks onto the stage of history. What is tragic is that these events will lead everyone who has two braincells to rub together to come to the following default conclusions: If there are reports of a scandal or problems at a church, they are true. Youre right. it is so sad it breaks my heart. Sure, It is very reasonable for kind folK to see something, anything, that looks like actual remorse before they think its ok for them (missive pastors) to go back to influencing the lives of the folks that they wish to shepherd. It is profoundly ironic that false teachers twist this particular scripture in an abusive way to their advantage just so that they can continue abusing. Plus Driscoll has to be way cheaper than Judah Smith or Carl Lentz, the current kings of radical chic. I take it to mean: Don't feel so bad, there are whole lot of other people hell-bound, too. The authentic community I was referring to is the it term/concept in megas for 2015. Before people know it, feeling loved and valued (and not realizing it was due to preplanned manipulation). However, some of his employees and family were taken in by SBTS and seem to be doing ok. IMO, the church as a whole can help to regulate these things by exposing them and explaining how they do not reflect Christ at all. So I can see why some churches would want him on board. And so on. Also, as Driscolls friend, John Piper, wrote: pastors are not professionals. So Brian Houston lied and succeeded in ending the protests and the media scrutiny temporarily. He lives in the Show Me State, so go ahead and show me. MD should never have been a pastor based on how much contempt he has for his fellow man. http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/oct/07/hillsong-pastor-brian-houston-found-fathers-sex-abuse-confession-agonising They have a very different take on the fulfillment of prophecy that you may enjoy learning as a contrast with your own beliefs. They didnt fail. "Join us as we welcome guest speaker, Pastor Mark Driscoll, while he presents Paul the ForgivenPastor Mark Driscoll speaks from Acts 6:8-15 to discuss the importance of forgiveness in our own lives through the example of the Apostle Paul. I know that tens of thousands left GW before I did and they walked away without the decency to help others. Nor to any of the other dead bodies behind the bus. I just took a year of online classes at one of them. While I appreciate that we were exposed to different theologians, it seemed the bent was toward Calvinism. . In Driscolls case he didnt even offer up the grudging apology specifically for the lives he ruined, the corruption, or the abuse of those at Mars Hill. Seriously? Did MD admit to being WWII under duress or was that more mischief from Dark Miscoll? Was that MDs evil twin Dark Miscoll who said elders who disagree with him need to be put in wood chippers or that women need to bring their men to Jesus by orally servicing them every morning whether they like it or not? I strongly recommend the brief article by Jon Zens at Searching Together entitled Going to the Root Mark Driscoll and the Celebrity System. . Finding out who and what Robert Morris really is inherently taints many others on the religious and political right, thereby making me question all my prior values and decisions. Oops, last comment of mine was supposed to link to this comment. He screamed and swore. If so associating with Driscoll they can get the thug part down. One of six. Having a large following for a while, being insulated from most of reality, produces this result. The virus is having a wonderful time right now spreading through this country, taking advantage of circumstances where people have let their guard go down. He appealed that he had no say in the matter. If Mark Driscoll is going to wanna manipulate his 501(c)3 Church audience to give him a second chance, hes gonna havta try harder. When he walked up to speak with me I politely told him neednt spend time with me because I lived about 4 hours away RT and, therefore, wouldnt be attending his church again. "It is possible for someone who has been a life-long alcoholic to stop. so many for so long have used caring for others while taking funding from orphans, politicians treating everyone equally and standing by the christian forefathers etc that it actually means nothing anymore. Gateway is so deceptive in all their practices. Anyone who knowingly overlooks all this has no judgement. Yes he was forgiven, but be spent years away from his former life, maybe to relearn what Christ Jesus was about. As Gram wrote above these are relationships (if you can call it that) built on trust. Returning so soon to the limelight reinforces the idea that it really is all about Mark. -Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truths. Nancy Otherwise, its authentic shunning for you. Hmmm, trust the Spirit, and let them be killed like Ananias and Sapphira? As the one did previously now the other is going thru the hoops of treatment and being checked on by outside agencies because being around the child is worth it. OT but of interest: the former pastor of a megachurch in Richmond, VA goes on trial tomorrow on charges of sexually abusing two minors in Texas some years ago. Welcome to the James River Church YouTube Channel where you will find weekly encouraging sermons from Pastor John Lindell and others! some have suffered unjustly. By the way, what do you call a person who tells lies? 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name., I dont think God has sent any dreams or visions to anyone vouching for Mark Driscoll? Mind you I find Driscoll a tool in case I havent made that obvious. Sometimes people get the idea that everybody needs some church-recognized ministry. At this point it seems to me that this would be the last thing that MD needed if he wants to get himself turned around. We saw the Dallas Morning News drop TVC story like it had Ebola germs on it despite knowing that parents were not being warned of a pedophile in their midst. If so you may be onto something. It is definitely not where all leadership and vision is deferred to one man, and it is definitely not authoritarian. (glorifies paul. Of course but that is so remote given the environment I am not holding my breath. News articles and such are also greatly appreciated. appeciate your posts and the others on this blog. notable pastors have been pouring into his life. Lindell has expressed his views on the topic before. I was reading related posts and noticed hes playing the martyr role as Driscoll did. He saw it as bad government.". . They stay in and around the very thing that ruined them in the first place. Let me look it up. At least at one point, women made up about 50% to 50% of most churches. It seems foolish from a marketing and business view to alienate over half your customers.. Would you hire back the embezzler to count your cash drawer after he served a short sentence because you forgave him? Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. well i cant finish watching the whole thing. "It is possible for someone who has practiced a life of adultery to stop," he said in the sermon. So we were allowed to leave in good standing. The program includes signing over any welfare benefits to the Ministry, with the program alleged to contain little actual psychological assistance, and mostly prayer and expelling demons. The question may even be wrong, maybe it isnt what is the church but who is. That is certainly not an idea they got from the Bible. He is a draw. this discussion you make today determines your destiny, God wants you to forgive. In his case, [Pauls] trust had to be earned, for obvious reasons. . Pouring what, exactly? http://www.mercyministries.org/, though she scrubbed some posts referring to her involvement when it was hillsong ministries mercy ministries there are still a few unscrubs left here and there. Elders thatthat sin are to be rebuke before all, that others also may fear. Who has harmed you? Their statements to Karen Hinkley and everyone else may be complete cynical BS to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, or at least those of their pewsitters. was paul asking for forgiveness? Im not kidding. It is like embezzlers working around money. Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. So work harder for the state and your comrades who do not meet their quotas. . Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. vengance is where you make someone pay. Tom Lane already draws a massive six figure salary yet it is never enough. In 2010, Outreach magazine listed James River as one of the fastest-growing churches in America. Certainly, or we are no better than he is. But Christians are under the New Covenant and the NT calls Christians to expose false teachers, not facilitate their cover ups. I was mainly trying to establish there is a difference between lovable Hollywood Che and reality Che. They will promise to give you an authentic community to do life with. How can they do that? Do you know his history and what he represents? Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. Forgiveness does not address that issue at all. he sees God. They wear what they believe are trendy shirts typically untucked to cover the middle aged spread with skinny jeans. Im guessing Driscolls trying to resurrect his career by going into Charismatic type denominations or churches. I have heard Driscoll in person.. Is that leader with a criminal record hitting on your young teen? pastor says: If so you may be onto something. Even after becoming a believer he wanted more. I wish he would try to get a corporate communications job or something though. Also it is not where you sit in rows and hear a weekly lecture. I think they have handled it with great PR and it is working. "And how many knownot everything you read on the internet is true". This was a new song to me. What I dont get is why Hillsong and Assemblies of God (James River Church), who have extremely different views on women in the church would even consider someone like Mark Driscoll as a special speaker. pure grace are you or have been in similar situation to stephen? They may have been totally shocked when Mark began to spew his rude, humiliating, oppressive descriptions and warped perceptions of scripture and men and women. Do I hope they change? https://musingsfromunderthebus.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/mars-hill-church-true-religion-does-not-abandon-orphans-and-widows-in-their-distress/. . My great concern is that people leaving megas to find these narrow gate churches are used to high level spiritainment and may not feel able to reduce their standards to go to a small church. Stephens, in my opinion, has gone to great lengths to keep his position on the ordinance incomprehensible. He screamed and swore. These are the views of Steve Pokin, the News-Leader's columnist. Thats why every post they make against corrupt churches matters. I think MDs desire to be on a stage, at this point, is a sure sign he should not be there. According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. i think that it worked quite well for Youth with a Mission for several years and then it went awry and i dont know the particulars of what happened. He told me Tuesday that he has every right to campaign for repeal in a sermon. In case this was not a rhetorical question, Mark also provided the all important yet elusive authentic community. No body guards. So many damaged lives. This has nothing to do with the recent downfall of Mark and demise of Mars Hill. I called Stephens and informed him Lindell had mentioned him in a sermon. Ironically, in giving this speech, Lindell was doing just that shooting the wounded. You have no idea how freeing it has been not to be shamed into believing the best groupthink of celebs when in fact, patterns, polity, hierarchical doctrines and associations should have given us pause all along. The Stronger Men's Conference exists to empower and motivate men to live out God's view of manhood and be the best husbands, fathers, and leaders God has called them to be! I see him as a conference speaker on a different circuit. There is a very strong argument for both priests and politicians to have both life and work experience before they enter the fray, however this is the age of the career priest and pollie. "We cannot endorse a candidate and we cannot endorse a party," he said. People think that Christians want filled pews and big churches, most do, i strongly disagree with that. Barnabus is the hero of this story that gets little press. This has taken a toll on me and my family, as well as those close to me, the former senior pastor wrote in a letter posted on the ROCs website. Lydia wrote: I still dont think he understands the harms he has done. I know people are tired of hearing these messages and having to be acting upon them, but the virus does not care that we are tired. As a follow-up (Sydney Morning Herald 1 July 2015), Hillsong conference shows interview with controversial US Pastor, Mark Driscoll see link At his height of fame Driscoll was the bad boy of the Christian world. By and large, our local churches have been great examples of staying emotionally connected while protecting one another in this pandemicthis example does not do those congregations justice., I stg we're the dumbest country in world.
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